Gallery: INHABITAT INTERVIEW: Green Architect & Cradle to Cradle Founde...

 

INHABITAT: In your book Cradle to Cradle, you make the point that when we recycled paper - we are giving up the original quality of the paper - we are losing something. Is most recycling just 'downcycling'? Do we lose quality with every cycle of recycle?

William McDonough: Right, what we want again is product quality, and so with a company like Herman Miller there is an issue of quality. It’s similar to what we are seeing with Construction Specialties here at GreenBuild - it’s about quality products in a fine system. From the market’s perspective you have to start to say things like this because they highlight that there are things to worry about, and that there are people who are genuinely interested and concerned about these things.

In Cradle to Cradle we addressed something that people may not understand when we proposed a form of producer responsibility over their product. The things we don’t talk about is a "life cycle", so we don’t think that this material is alive. It’s not. We don’t see it as a consumer product because they can’t consume it. I can't consume a TV, so we would call that a nutrient. We don’t talk about life cycle, we talk about use periods. We don’t talk about take back, we talk about reverse logistics or intelligent materials pooling. If something was removed from a building right, under our protocols, this is a safe thing to remove. That’s stainless steel, and that’s this, and that’s that, and they are defined. So then you go back into a materials pool.

INHABITAT: What inspired you to write ‘Cradle to Cradle‘ (the book) and launch the Cradle to Cradle system?

William McDonough: From an early age, I was fascinated by differing attitudes towards resources. Growing up in Japan and Hong Kong, I was given my first look at complete material cycles, where waste becomes food, and resources like water are limited and precious. This contrasted greatly with the wastefulness I witnessed when my family moved to the United States, and that difference in attitude left a great impression on me. As a young architect, my thinking continued to evolve. I incorporated elements like solar energy into my designs and began to look closely at the sourcing of materials, but Cradle to Cradle really came to fruition when I met Dr. Michael Braungart. Together we developed the Cradle to Cradle philosophy, which we articulated in Cradle to Cradle: Remaking the Way We Make Things, which came out in 2002.

INHABITAT: Can you explain how the Cradle to Cradle rating system works – both from the perspective of manufacturers and consumers?

William McDonough: Cradle to Cradle products Certification goes beyond the definition of a rating system or a binary pass/fail seal of approval. Cradle to Cradle is a process for managing the total quality of a product and an engine for business innovation, taking into consideration not only environmental impact but also safety, health and social responsibility. The certification is a continuous and rigorous process, and participating companies hope to move their Basic products toward the achievement of Gold, Silver or Platinum. No single company product has yet achieved Platinum.

Certification takes into account five dimensions: materials as nutrients for safe continuous cycling; development of systems to safely close the loop on our biological and technical nutrients; power all operations with 100% renewable energy; regard water as a precious resource; and finally respect for all people and natural systems.

INHABITAT: I was just talking with Paul Murray at Herman Miller about your contribution to their products and it was really extraordinary how closely related their company’s success is with your input. Was this the first company that you’ve worked with on such an intimate level? What helped shift the ethos of the company’s design culture?

William McDonough: We began to work with them when they stopped producing the Eames chairs out of rosewood – an endangered species. Ultimately, you really don’t want to mess with the icon of a company, but Herman Miller had a person working there who was so passionate about these issues that the company as a whole went ahead and changed the specs to walnut and stopped using endangered wood. It was a really nice thing for them to do.

But really what we’re dealing with here is product quality, and as a result a lot of these attributes you see highlighted by companies are various components that are focused on issues such as carbon reduction, and the like – single attributes. You also see a lot of claims to efficiency, which follows the train of thought “we’re less bad because we’ve reduced our badness by 20 percent.” We don’t want to be selling what we’re not. See, if I look at this sign with the word NO you realize that you’re selling what you’re not.

INHABITAT: In your book Cradle to Cradle, you make the point that when we recycled paper – we are giving up the original quality of the paper – we are losing something. Is most recycling just ‘downcycling’? Do we lose quality with every cycle of recycle?

William McDonough: Right, what we want again is product quality, and so with a company like Herman Miller there is an issue of quality. It’s similar to what we are seeing with Construction Specialties here at GreenBuild – it’s about quality products in a fine system. From the market’s perspective you have to start to say things like this because they highlight that there are things to worry about, and that there are people who are genuinely interested and concerned about these things.

In Cradle to Cradle we addressed something that people may not understand when we proposed a form of producer responsibility over their product. The things we don’t talk about is a “life cycle”, so we don’t think that this material is alive. It’s not. We don’t see it as a consumer product because they can’t consume it. I can’t consume a TV, so we would call that a nutrient. We don’t talk about life cycle, we talk about use periods. We don’t talk about take back, we talk about reverse logistics or intelligent materials pooling. If something was removed from a building right, under our protocols, this is a safe thing to remove. That’s stainless steel, and that’s this, and that’s that, and they are defined. So then you go back into a materials pool.

It’s like a Herman Miller chair that ends up in Mexico City fifteen years from now, if somebody throws it out the back and into the dumpster. Well, the scavengers will just come and grab it. It’s worth something. The reason it’s worth something is that’s steel, and that’s aluminum, and that’s polycarbonates, and that polyethylenes. It’s no longer a chair, it’s part of the materials intelligent pool. So the design is that aluminum can come off and go back to aluminum, the steel goes back to steel. They’re not monstrous hybrids that can’t be separated.

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24 Comments

  1. frankorazio July 31, 2014 at 4:17 pm

    Great read- clearly explains upcycling and what it means to look at the actual life cycle of materials.

  2. William McDonough Chair... July 11, 2014 at 3:16 pm

    [...] The Cradle to Cradle® design framework that William McDonough co-developed is an underpinning philosophy of the circular economy and the new Council. At the Forum in Davos in January, McDonough led the first CEO workshop around sustainability—focused on Cradle and Cradle, the upcycle, and the circular economy. McDonough was chosen to lead the Meta-Council on the Circular Economy due to his decades of design innovation and thought leadership dedicated to developing safe and healthy products, architecture, and communities. In addition, his ability to effectively communicate Cradle to Cradle principles makes him an ideal leader for rendering visible the beneficial opportunities of the circular economy. McDonough will enable business innovators to design a better world ‘for all children of all species for all time,’ as he says.” [...]

  3. Paul Johnson June 30, 2014 at 1:41 pm

    Ideas like Cradle to Cradle are what will help create a more sustainable future for our children

  4. Debbie Belson June 10, 2014 at 9:32 am

    A compelling interview about improving the way things are made

  5. Brendan Raines May 19, 2014 at 3:10 pm

    Waste is a product of bad design, according to Cradle to Cradle. Most often we’ve seen designers try to increase profits and reduce costs, by exemplifying waste as pollution. A change is needed in our approach to product design and waste management- creating products with a reusable life cycle.

  6. Bill Killough May 7, 2014 at 4:11 pm

    this article stresses the importance of what happens to products after it completes its primary use

  7. Soo Young Lee April 16, 2014 at 11:43 am

    The concept of cradle-to-cradle seems like the perfect solution and Mcdonough’s speechs are so inspiring. But I still can’t let go of the fact that Mcdonough is using c2c certifications as a money making tool. I found great inspiration in his words and I really hope it isn’t true but it sort of explains why so few products are certified with c2c. His project in china was an absolute design failure as well. From an architect’s point of view it was merely an idealistic diagram not an actual plan. I’m kinda sad that such a beautiful idea doesn’t work in reality.

  8. Sal January 29, 2014 at 9:27 am

    McDonough recently spoke at the World Economic Forum. He hosted a special session: “Beyond Sustainability: From Limits to Growth”

  9. Karen Oswald January 15, 2014 at 12:35 pm

    Cradle to Cradle challenges manufacturers to think about the future of the planet- being able to utilize materials part of continuous reuse cycles

  10. Cathy Lang December 27, 2013 at 10:04 am

    He makes a good point: even if we reduce our current carbon footprint, its not enough. We still have a materials problem

  11. Bill Levine November 25, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    Great breakdown of Cradle to Cradle certification. Looking forward to seeing what company product will be the first to achieve Platinum certification.

  12. JessJanes April 28, 2011 at 10:59 pm

    In 2007 I heard William McDonough speak and was very inspired. Since then, I look at everything as a raw material that has value. All of the used glass that isn’t being recycled and the cardboard being exported, are materials we need to keep in the circle.

  13. Glass is Green April 26, 2011 at 8:13 am

    Very informative and inspiring interview on Cradle to Cradle, we are delighted with his valuable points on green architecture or green design movement…thanks for sharing…go green

  14. gordo April 21, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    Just heard William McDonough speak at FORTUNE Green conference in Laguna Beach, CA. I was impressed with his focus on everybody’s right to clean air and water, and how this figures into his overall philosophy. He worries about how those in underprivileged areas of Africa and other third world countries will have access to the basic resources of life. He provides a conscience for corporations that might otherwise not worry about these issues.

  15. lazyreader April 14, 2011 at 8:10 am

    While acknowledging McDonough’s contributions to ‘green”, McDonough has been overly protective of his certification process, and in some instances has not inspired cooperation with other individuals and businesses the way he set out. McDonough’s Huangbaiyu, China project has not been inhabited due to design flaws. Conflicts between Feng Shui crap and passive solar design. Appending garages although no villagers can afford cars, failing to provide space for grazing livestock which is vital in China, and building the houses out of potentially unsafe compressed coal dust to make brick despite his teething statements he made about bricks. His famous Nike’s shoe project was never realized, due to his unwillingness to share cradle-to-cradle specifications with suppliers despite promoting it. Just how reliable are C2C-certified products and in regards to quality. Are they really compostable, or indefinitely recyclable. recycling conditions are much more complicated than what is defined and marketed by the C2C certification. In addition to this recycling issue, the fact that transportation criteria are not part of the certification’s demand is also a reason of criticism. Everything we do requires energy. From production step or resource-transformation step to finished products to transportation to home use to disposal. That needs a certain amount of energy (Newton’s second law). Cradle to cradle approach does not consider this energy requirement nor where or how the energy is created to do so.

  16. Holcim Awards December 27, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    He is an inspiring individual and a leader in the sustainable movement. http://on.fb.me/holcim-awards

  17. Tres Altman December 23, 2010 at 9:13 am

    One of the most pertinent thinkers of our time. As we move into a more sustainable future, his contributions will be considered foundational. Thanks for your blog, and for this interview…

  18. aarondesatnik December 22, 2010 at 11:25 pm

    Nice piece. I think you ought to do deeper investigation before saying “the most rigorous product standards.” They’re actually challenged across the building industry for the lack of transparency. There are independent standards such as Green Seal, Eco Logo and GREENGUARD that are both more transparent and recognized for their rigor.

  19. eribons December 22, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Thank you for this insightful interview. I am always inspired by your web blog. I am an interior designer with most of my clients in LA. They are(and have been for many years) interested in Green design. It is imperative that we continue to “shift” our ways of design, industry and consumption to these newer ideas. Thank you to the people who are passionate and are at the helm of this movement.
    Now, can how we make it affordable to EVERYONE??

  20. Mike Chino December 22, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Great interview Andrew! Bill McDonough is one of the most prominent figures in the green movement and is a fantastic inspiration to us all!

  21. Kestrel Jenkins Kestrel Jenkins December 22, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    Such a great piece — and so inspiring to hear directly from the brains behind Cradle to Cradle.

  22. Yuka Yoneda Yuka Yoneda December 22, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Excellent interview – Andrew, you interviewed a green design superstar!

  23. Jill Fehrenbacher December 22, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    This is such an interesting interview – thank you Andrew and Bill McDonough for making the time to put this together!

  24. Diane Pham Diane Pham December 22, 2010 at 11:41 am

    A great interview. It’s amazing to see the range of impact that the Cradle to Cradle system has had – from architecture, to construction all the way down to consumer goods. Brilliant minds and brilliant ideas!

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